men and women
May 16, 2008 by moriahjoy
From my favorite movie.
[When Harry Met Sally]
Harry Burns: You realize of course that we could never be friends.
Sally Albright: Why not?
Harry Burns: What I’m saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can’t be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally Albright: That’s not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry Burns: No you don’t.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: No you don’t.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: You only think you do.
Sally Albright: You say I’m having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry Burns: No, what I’m saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: How do you know?
Harry Burns: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally Albright: So, you’re saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?
Harry Burns: No. You pretty much want to nail ‘em too.
Sally Albright: What if THEY don’t want to have sex with YOU?
Harry Burns: Doesn’t matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.
Sally Albright: Well, I guess we’re not going to be friends then.
Harry Burns: I guess not.
Sally Albright: That’s too bad. You were the only person I knew in New York.
There are days I am convinced men and women can never be friends. ;p
Well, my best friend and I had a debate about this in college, as I wanted to be just friends, and she didn’t think men and women could be friends.
We’ve been married for a little over five years now.
That said, I had and have plenty friendships with women, and the sex part has never gotten in the way.
Doesn’t look like a baby to me.
Which part?
All of it.
Hahaha; that’s a great story. =) What made you convince her otherwise?
I agree with your life experience most days (that men and women can be friends) and have a slew of male friends with no sex involved; there are just times I’m quite convinced Harry was right. ;)
Love the quote. Love the movie.
Thanks for stopping by. =)
OK, so I want to have sex her - or at least at some varying points of the friendship I want to? So what? I never held to the belief that sexual desire got in the way of friendship ;)
Good point, Jonolan, except if one party is saying no and the other cannot handle that, you’re bound to have issues. Not insurmountable issues, but issues nonetheless.
I was always so oblivious to this, and so convinced that nobody would ever think that way about me (and still am most of the time, Mr. Razzler excepted, of course) that this never seemed/seems to be a problem. ;)
What?! You’re beautiful, Razzler! ;)
*Coughs nervously* Ahem, um, moving swiftly on…
LOL, whatever.
;)
Anyhoo… I do understand why these terrains can be difficult to navigate at times, but I’m with Jonolan… Sexual desire doesn’t have to get in the way of friendship, although it can complicate things at times.
I think it really depends upon the two individuals in question.
It’s a provocative quote…and one I fall back on when I’m frustrated over complications, ;) but…I would agree in general that it doesn’t “have” to get in the way of friendship…but sometimes the complications that ensue are enough to drive a woman crazy. ;) I think it also depends upon a lot of factors; was the friendship there in place first, did the desire come before or after the friendship, are the two willing to deal with the complications and work through them for the sake of the friendship? ;p Is the physical desire tied up with emotional or mental desire? Is there eros love at stake for one party? Blah blah blah.
Navigating these questions is part of what makes life interesting. ;p
Yeah, it’s probably too easy to generalise these things, it’s highly complicated, lots of factors that make each situation unique - your observations are spot on, my friend. :)
You’re also both over complicating the situation.
I’ve had friends who I had sex with from time to time. We were just friends though; neither one of us would have EVER considered the other as a mate. Our sex didn’t get in the way of our friendship at all.
I’ve also been friends with a woman I grew to want as a Wife-Girlfriend-Partner. She didn’t feel the same way about me - a very wise woman. That WAS a problem. Frankly, I handled that situation with all the grace and forethought one could expect from a six-year-old.
Sex = no issue or problem unless one isn’t interested and he other can’t accept that.
“Romantic Love” = BIG problem if one is interested and the other isn’t.
I don’t think I convinced her. Our romantic relationship just sort of evolved in a Harry-and-Sally kind of way.
You’re also both over complicating the situation.
Oh, are we, Jonolan?… ;p
I’ve had friends who I had sex with from time to time. We were just friends though; neither one of us would have EVER considered the other as a mate. Our sex didn’t get in the way of our friendship at all.
I’ve also been friends with a woman I grew to want as a Wife-Girlfriend-Partner. She didn’t feel the same way about me - a very wise woman. That WAS a problem. Frankly, I handled that situation with all the grace and forethought one could expect from a six-year-old.
Sex = no issue or problem unless one isn’t interested and he other can’t accept that.
“Romantic Love” = BIG problem if one is interested and the other isn’t.
Hmm. Every person writes/lives out of his/her worldview/lens. Mine precludes having sex with anyone but my husband, so one of the assumed underlying premises for me when looking at this question/issue is that if I’m having sex, it is never with just a friend, it is with the man I’ve committed myself to in marriage (and since I’m single, that isn’t happening in any of my relationships). Therefore, sexual tension/desire/and/or romantic love tends to become an issue more often in my relationships with males if there’s attraction on either side because there is no release sexually; either we move toward a romantic relationship, with the understanding that we’re waiting until we’re married to express our love/desire sexually, or…we don’t move towards that and thus deal with the tension/issues as they come and arise. Which means, very often, “friendships” don’t work out (while some, obviously do).
I loosely hold to the “When Harry Met Sally” line of thinking but experience has taught me it is more often too true than not.
But maybe it’s just me. ;p
Thanks, ubuntucat, for sharing.
I’m amazed that no matter how many times I watch that movie, I never, ever tire of it. =)
Christy,
It seems to me that the romantic relationship is more the issue than the sex. I don’t think it’s the sexual tension interfering with the friendships, but rather the “emotional tension.”
Of course it’s possible that I’m over analyzing this. ;) I do that from time to time.
Over analysing, Jonolan? You just told us off for over-complicating the issue! ;)
HAHAHAHA. Razzler, couldn’t have said it better. *wink* I read jonolan’s comment first, and was thinking along the same lines with a grin and then read your comment right after and burst out laughing.
Anyway, jonolan. I think perhaps you’re right. It is the emotional tension interfering with the friendships, but I wonder if there is not a compromise that would draw this together somehow…I wonder if it comes to a bit of a male/female divide. For women, it has seemed to be the case in my spheres that they tie the sexual to the romantic/emotional way more often than men do. So in that case, perhaps that’s where the discrepancy is coming into play. It’s less easy for a woman (in general) to separate her emotions from the sex. Many of my male friends have sex without much if any emotion tied to it; not so for many of my female friends. So whereas a man can have sex with a woman he’s just friends with, it’s not too often the case it’s the reverse. A woman may say she’s fine with that, but on some emotional level, it affects her much more, whether or not she lets on to the man.
Nothing scientific about my thoughts here. ;) Just gathered from lots and lots of conversations with friends and acquaintances…
Arrrgh! Hoist on my own petard! LOL Thank you, Razzler.